i believe there is some discussion of reports of possible gyno or other related problems with higher dosages and/or longer dosing periods.i think its rare but figured it was worth mentioning as a possibility.

avantgarde

Jul 25 2006, 08:13 AM

Biotest marketed it as "RED KAT" and then later included it in TRIBEX.
People may hate Biotest but there is no doubt in mind that TRIBEX elevated test. It contains Vitex, Eurycoma eg Long Jack and Tribulus. I got oilier skin and got hornier within days on this.

통캇알리와 Tribulus(tribulis terrestris,Gokshuva 과일,일명 백질려)와의 비교
zuper
Jul 25 2006, 09:54 AM

Tongat ali nor tribulus race my total or free test and DHEA but made me hornier.I

 think both have to do with libido boosting effect with different way each.

Also with blood supply (like yohimbe which do not raise hormone levels)

and neurotranmitters boosting.They probably affect other hormones like ACHT,cortisol,aldosterone,oxytocin,vassopressin and even DHT which didn't check.

리미도 증가,유리 테스토스트론 증가,성호르몬 결합 글로빈,

호르몬 대체 치료법 다양한 언급니군요.  넘 유식해…

m_delgros

Jul 31 2006, 10:43 AM

Can anyone compare the differences and simalarities for Acitvate and Long Jack?
혼합물과 단일물의 차이겠죠 아님 가격차이?

Benson

Jul 31 2006, 12:19 PM

The DS guys can probably be more specific but ActivaTe is intended to reduce SHBG levels which should, in theory, leave more unbound T in circulation.

The data on longjack indicates that it may increase total T levels.

호르몬 치료에 대한 언급 감소효과 확실하게 있지요…음

T-level은 테스토스트론 이겠지요.

lethaljd

Jul 31 2006, 12:55 PM

I had good results with Diesel Nutrition's Diesel Test, which contains Tongkat Ali, amongst other things.

I've always suspected the the reason it is not more popular is either

low potency or too little being consumed.

의심은 좋으나 먹어봐야,아니 복용해야 아는 법…

mat-pal

Aug 1 2006, 06:45 AM

It is not as popular because the higher quality extracts are extremely expensive.

꼭 그렇게 비싼 건 아닌데 1000병 사면 80% 세일도 된다는데…

Kimbo

Aug 1 2006, 01:13 PM

QUOTE(mat-pal @ Aug 1 2006, 07:45 AM)

It is not as popular because the higher quality extracts are extremely expensive.

QUOTE(Kimbo @ Aug 1 2006, 10:13 AM)

Any chance you might stock this in the future? I'd buy it.
If it costs someone even a hundred dollars a bottle for something that works really well

QUOTE(mat-pal @ Aug 1 2006, 04:45 AM)

이래가지고 효과 볼 수 있을까요?.

Check the website of the US Food and Drug Administration, www.fda.gov.
In their search field, enter: "eurycoma"
This will take you to the page:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/
95s0316/95s-0316-rpt0123-01-vol85.pdf
You can see that an application has been filed for tongkat ali powder only, and not for extract.

Tongkat ali isn’t a supplement for which a standard method of standardization would have been established. And under such circumstances, many variations of tongkat ali ingredients can be sold as extract.

The point is: you cannot buy tongkat ali or tongkat ali extract by looking at bottles and comparing prices. You can only buy it on the basis of personal experience with specific brands, or on the basis of trust.
As you are shopping for active ingredients that haven’t been clearly determined,
a product that is 20 times more expensive per gram may actually be the cheaper one.
심사숙고하시라..

If you want to examine whether a product likely is just root powder or extract indeed, weigh it.
A specific volume of extract is much heavier than the same volume of root powder.
Root powder is mostly cellulose, and cellulose is light in weight (and color).

Extract is much heavier. Tongkat ali extract is also highly aquaphile. If you touch it with your plain fingers, it will instantly form a sticky smear with traces of sweat from your skin, just as a cheap brand of instant coffee would.

Unfortunately, as the sale of health supplements is so little regulated,
and because consumers clearly tend to buy the cheapest products, traders cheat.
They do on the Internet and in the brick-and-mortar world.
They promise you a good deal, when in fact, they sell you an inferior product.

Consumers look at labels only to see what is in the bottle, not how much of it.
They don’t look at the mg amounts, because they are not aware what therapeutic amounts are.

This is not specific to tongkat ali.
Take, for example, argenine: therapeutic dosages are in the range of 5 to 10 gram, on an empty stomach, and even such amounts are not felt. If you are sold capsules that contain 100 mg of argenine, you are taken for a ride. 100 mg of argenine is nothing.
A spoonful of many kinds of food contains more argenine, and of course is just as effective or ineffective as a capsule with 100 mg of argenine in it.

Or take multivitamins with minerals. They pack 50 different nutrients into a single capsule, to impress the potential buyer. But it’s not the list of names that you swallow.
You ingest certain amounts of ingredients, including, for example, 10 mg of calcium, and 10 mg of potassium. I have to laugh. For more details on multivitamins and minerals,
please see my domain www.multivitaminhoax.com.

As what you buy in capsules all too often are diminutive amounts of an herbal that, in proper dosage, does have its medicinal value, you mustn’t be surprised if you feel nothing,or a placebo effect at most.

A proper dosage of tongkat ali has an effect that can be felt.
A proper dosage is about 50 gram of root powder or chipped root, cooked as a tea, or an extract, which is the equivalent of 50 gram.

500 mg root powder is not a proper dosage. Not even 10 times 500 mg. And 10 capsules with 300 mg of a 1:2 extract is also not a proper dosage.
You won’t feel anything from either.

So, what do I feel from a proper dosage of tongkat ali? A certain hotheadedness, improved bowel movements (only the first few times). I also feel energized and stimulated, but the tongkat ali does not interfere with sleep architecture.

However, the above are just side effects, not the effects I am after.
Tongkat ali clearly improves libido, which is why I take it. Why I need it.

Tongkat ali improves libido, but not in the same way as dopaminergics do.
Tongkat ali feels more natural than dopaminergics, and when I have taken tongkat ali for some time,
I just wonder whether I’m not just perfectly healthy, sex-wise.

Then I stop the tongkat ali for a few days, and I know that I’m not. My sex drive will just be gone.

When I’m back on tongkat ali, I have it again: this teeth-clenching desire to tight-grip a female body, and to take her rough. Tongkat ali is like a libido mill in the back of my head.
And when I have intercourse on tongkat ali, I am like a grinder.
I move through intercourse like a gearwheel, not fast, but steady, and with a crushing certainty that the gearwheel will not stop before I have had my orgasm.

Yes, tongkat ali, in me, makes sex more egoistic. In comparison to cabergoline,
it doesn’t make me a perfect lover. But it makes me a very manly man.

m_delgros

Aug 4 2006, 04:28 PM

A Sumatra Pasak Bumi rep from tongkatali.org sent me this...

Dear Megan,

The 1:200 extract is not just 4 times the strength of the 1:50 extract. While the 1:50 extract contains everything that is in the 1:200 extract, the fraction of plant ingredients is wider than in the 1:50 extract.

It is not correct to assume that four capsules of 1:50 extract you will get the same effect as one 1:200 extract capsule.
One cannot compare the two extracts just like that. For most people, the effect of 4 capsules of 1:50 extract will be stronger than the effect of 1 capsule 1:200 extract.
Mostly, the 1:200 extract is preferred by those who cannot tolerate the 1:50 extact.

I will do my best to answer your questions. I would suggest that you do some research on the site below. Please understand that this mans site is somewhat bazaar, as it is mainly sexual related, however he has some very good research on Tongkat Ali, how it works what is the best product etc.
About half way down the page are several links for Tongkat Ali that you may find interesting.

Please understand I do not have any affiliation with Mr. Kreutz. I happened upon his site when I was doing my own research on which was the best product to buy. He recommends Sumatra Pasak Bumi as the best manufacturer of Tongkat Ali.

http://www.asiatour.com/tongkatalipurchase.htm

I looked at the L-J 100 site and, this is just my opinion, but find that it may not be truthful in its description of product. They claim that it is a concentration of 1:100, however then it says they are only 50 mg of TA per capsule. The site I order from is www.tongkatali.org, if you check their site you can see that the 1:50 capsules are 400 MG of pure Tongkat Ali Extract per capsule and that the 1:200 capsules are 600 MG per capsule.
To the average consumer one would reasonable assume that 1:200 would be 4 times stronger then 1:50, but you can see by the MG per capsule that this is not the case it is in reality only 1/3 stronger, but the price is very high.
Using the same math one would see that a 1:100 capsule would probably only be a 500 mg capsule, however on the L-J 100 site it says the capsules are 50 mg?

I am sure they would say it is concentrated, but a mg is a mg no matter how you explain it.

For many years I have read an alternatives medicine Newsletter by Dr. David Williams.
When he hears of a new herb or remedy he travels to the country and investigates himself.

He also recommends that Sumatra Pasak Bumi has the highest quality, and safest TA sold, that is where I frist read about TA from Sumatra Pasak Bumi. Malaysian TA has been know to have concentrations of lead and arsenic in their Tongkat Ali and some companies just bootleg TA from Malaysia since there it is a protected plant. Our manufacturer is licensed and inspected by they Govt of Indonesia. They have on site an inspector equal to a FDA inspector.

The Tongkat Ali I sell is 400 MG per capsule, for body builders it is suggested that one takes between 2 and 4 grams a day ( 2000 to 4000 mg) as you can see with the LJ-100 one would have to take 40 to 80 capsules a day to get the same results.
On the label for the LJ-100 it says it is 150 mg of longjack but that is if you take 3 capsules. At the site I looked at I did not see that it was inspected or licensed.
Many of the companies in Malaysia add bootleg Viagra to their product which makes it even more unsafe.
I had been told that the FDA had notified some sellers that they could not sell certain Malaysian TA, but have no concrete proof of this. The site I looked at is closed and has moved to a new site which is the information I was given that once they are told the cannot sell they just get a new site
and continue on.

출처 : http://gagi1024.egloos.com/132635